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Fred "Piro" Gallagher is the co-creator, writer, and artist for one of the most popular webcomics around, Megatokyo. The adventures of two Americans stranded in a Japan of giant robots, undead uprisings, guardian angels, and drunken monster turtles, MegaTokyo features comedy, romance and block-busting action.
When the time came to upgrade the computer used to produce MegaTokyo, Gallagher bought a Mac tower. Bill Stiteler recently chatted with "Piro" about his new computer, his take on being a web artist, and anime.
Applelinks: I was surprised at some of the flak you caught for getting a Mac.
Piro: It wasn't really that much, actually. A little here and there, but not that much. Seventy percent of the e-mails I got regarding it were applauding it.
Applelinks: Why did you decide to add a Mac?
Piro: Well, I think that the primary impetus to the change was that I was getting tired of the unending problems I was having with Windows.
Applelinks: Such as?
Piro: Well, mostly it was a function of setup. You sort of really need to know the tricks and a lot of specific things to really be able to optimize windows properly; a lot of these things I don't really know. Most of my computers have never been what you would call "cutting edge."
Applelinks: Really? You strike me as being one of the more techo-savvy artists.
Piro: Oh, I am, but that doesn't mean I'm an expert. I am good at what I know I'm good at, but I am also pretty up front when I know there are people who know more than I do. I don't rebuild computers day in and out. I just want my systems to work.
Applelinks: And then you saw the Cinema display.
Piro: That had something to do with it, I admit. One of the problems with PC systems is that most of them are hand-built. You tend to build systems for power, and the polish and look and feel of the systems tends to be...well, sort of haphazard. One of the things I've always liked about the Macs are the little things, the look and feel bits that you tend to live without when you buy PC components. Granted, you can trick out a PC pretty savagely these days, but that costs money, too.
Applelinks: Have you used Macs before?
Piro: Not really. And I think this goes back to when I was in High school and I got my first computer. I was looking at the IBM PC and it was a choice between that and the Apple IIC. Even back then, I wanted to do graphics, but it just wasn't very feasible on machines of that ilk. Odd thing was, the computer store had an Apple Lisa.
Applelinks: Ha!
Piro: I remember how neat it was, but of course I had no idea where things were going - I was 15 or something. I remember the conversation we had when we were getting down to buying the computer; should I get the IBM PC, which had 2 floppy drives, DOS 1.1 and all sorts of neat stuff, or do I wait for this new computer that Apple was gonna introduce soon, this "Macintosh." I ended up with the PC, obviously. If I had waited, it might have been a different run of computers I had used to this point. I really have not extensively used a Mac OS up till this one, so my experience with 9 and previous versions is pretty limited. But I do remember the days of "Mac envy" when the PC based machines didn't hold a candle to the graphic abilities of the Macs of the time. That changed over time, but I still felt that there were some advantages to the Mac, real or imagined.
Applelinks: How has your Mac worked out for you?
Piro: My honest opinion, after using it, OS X, the plusses and the minuses, etc., I really like it. I'm very glad I went this route. I still have a PC workstation, plus my laptop. But I think what I like best about the Mac are the subtle things. There is a lot of polish in the OS as well as the machine itself that I really like.
Applelinks: Is it the stability?
Piro: The machine IS more stable. I run a lot of programs at once, and it doesn't seem to bother it. I have crashed it, and I even had a kernel panic once - that was amusing.
Applelinks: D'oh.
Piro: But overall, it is more stable than my PC. Well, there is a caveat that should be mentioned about the comparison for me. This Mac is a far better and more powerful machine than my PC was.
Applelinks: Are you using the Mac as your primary machine, or is it your "graphics station," and you do other things on the PC?
Piro: I use it as my primary machine. I actually acquired a new PC that is somewhat comparable from a friend who upgraded to something better for his PC game box. So I have that plus the new Mac plus my Dell laptop. Sarah [Fred's fiancée, who appears as the character Seraphim in the comic] uses the PC for the most part, but I really want to get her a 12" Mac laptop. I use the PC for games, obviously, but I don't play a lot of games - when you work for yourself, its pretty much full time.
Applelinks: Yes, in the comic, Seraphim uses an iBook.
Piro: That's the irony.
Applelinks: I was going to ask if that part was real-life as well.
Piro: I tend to put things in my comic sometimes based on what I'd like to do, see or get. I've wanted to get Sarah a Mac laptop for ages. And the irony is that now she has my Dell. She's not as fussy about computers as I am, but sometime soon I want to switch her over. For what she mainly uses the computer for, I think she'd like it better.
Applelinks: How is the "working artist" lifestyle suiting you?
Piro: Very well. I don't know how I managed to work a full time job and do this at the same time. Of course, I am doing more, but it's still a lot of work. About working for myself, there is one rather interesting part of it; when you work at a computer all day at work, and then come home and use your own computer. You have two machines that you work on. Work, and home. Both have similar things on them, and many different things. The reason I felt it was ok to spend a lot on this Mac setup was that it was now going to be doing both for me. It was my home PC, my extension online, and my work PC. It's been an interesting change.
Applelinks: You've taken a very interesting tack with this...You don't ask for donations or offer a subscription.
Piro: I think that the nature of the web is one where information and things that are available on the web are expected to have a very free flow - people don't like paying for content. There is so much content out there for free, paying for content would mean it would have to be amazingly special. And frankly, in the human mind, there just isn't anything IMHO that you can load in your browser that is worth ponying up credit info for. As for not asking for donations...I don't like asking people for money.
Applelinks: But at the same time, the print editions have been selling out. Is that just the psychology of the web vs. print?
Piro: I feel that the media companies have done a really good job of forcing people to feel they have to pay for entertainment. Only if you pay for it (or steal it) is it "good" stuff. We are led to believe that if you aren't getting it that way, its not "professional" or worthy entertainment. I've been working along the lines of, "we're more than capable of entertaining ourselves, thank you very much." The nice thing about the web is that you can reach a huge audience of people without a lot of expense, and no one can tell you what you can or can't put up, and people make their own decisions if they come and read or not. Right now, MT has about 60,000 to 95,000 readers daily. And the bandwidth is about 6 to 8 Meg per second, at about 1,250 gig a month. Expensive? Yeah, but no where near what it would cost to reach those people daily in print.
Applelinks: Do you consider yourself to be a professional?
Piro: Me? Professional? Hardly.
Applelinks: Why not?
Piro: Professionals are people who have talent and are very capable at what they do. I'm just an art hack who doesn't have to answer to anyone except himself about what he puts up. A professional could go off and do things based on what he is paid to do.
Applelinks: I'm sorry; can you clarify that last sentence?
Piro: Well, for instance. If I were a "pro," I could work for a studio where I could be handed a story or script and I would be able to sit and draw those characters and do that story.
Applelinks: You couldn't do that now?
Piro: The way I do things, I'm not doing other people's work. I'm putting out works based on what I feel I want to do.
Applelinks: You might argue that actually makes you an artist.
Piro: I might be able to, but if I did that, I might as well go back to being an architect. As an architect, you make a lot of decisions, but in the end, it is the person or people paying for it who have final say.
Applelinks: No, I mean that doing your own writing and art is what makes you an artist.
Piro: Well...it could be argued that that is what makes an artist an artist; they have something to say, and everything they do is about communicating that to people. If they are successful at it, I guess that's being an artist. I don't think I'm there yet. Besides, being an "artist" is a gift word. It's what people call you. I will never call myself one.
Applelinks: When will you "be there?"
Piro: What I put on paper, or on the web, never gets close to what I really want to do. It feels good when you get somewhere near your goals, but there are hundreds of artists out there that can blow my doors off. All I can do is keep working hard to try to improve. If you ask me if I have improved since I started - yeah, very much so, but I have a long way to go.
Applelinks: Who do you think blows your doors off?
Piro: Heh, well, most professional manga artists and their staff - there are many unknown people who do incredible work. Even if you browse amateur art websites in Japan, you will see many of these people who have amazing skills.
Applelinks: So what do you consider yourself, as someone who makes a living doing something, but not a pro?
Piro: Sure, I'm very lucky. Very lucky. I've worked very hard to build something that has a lot of readers, and I've got to the point where I can earn enough to pay rent, food, feed the cats, get a computer upgrade, etc, and spend more time doing what I am so passionate about. The whole argument as to if I should label myself a "pro" or not is moot. I don't like labels. I don't like hype either. I just like doing the work and letting people judge for themselves. I am proud of what I do, I just don't ever want to make assumptions that its better than it really is.
Applelinks: So, why manga? What attracts you to it?
Piro: Ah, interesting question. Manga is just a label, like anything. See, when I was in high school, I wanted to become an animator. I wanted to work for Disney or something like that.
Applelinks: Are we going to have to construct a new language for this interview?
Piro: Ha! Not really, I'm getting to a point. But I decided to become an architect instead. Years later, when manga started to become more available in the U.S., I found myself being drawn to it in much the same way so many other fans in the U.S. have. And I think the reason why has to do with the fact that it's not the fact that it's Japanese, or that its "different" that is important, but that there is a real subtleness to the visual language it uses that is absent in more American style comics. I've been a fan of anime and manga for over 10 years, but my Japanese is terrible. That's because I spent that time learning the language of the art rather than the language itself.
Applelinks: It's also treated as a legitimate narrative form.
Piro: Yes, and I think that there is a lot of subtlety to manga and anime that American artists tend to gloss over when trying to mimic it. It's the "in-between days" things that give manga it's soul, not the big fights or climactic scenes. It's all those subtle little things that people love, and that's why they read it the way they do. I want to create works that have the same effect on people. There is no one "manga style" - all manga artists have their own style. I think I've developed my own style as well, and it works for me.
Applelinks: So what do you try to do in MegaTokyo?
Piro: Well, I think that all good entertainment can entertain and talk to people on many levels. There are simple levels that everyone can understand - the jokes are there, the story, the big stuff. Then there are things that you see if you look deeper and even more if you start connecting the dots from other things you read. Then there are the things I put in that I only expect myself to understand. And it's amazing what people pick up. I think that when people start following a story, they put a bit of emotional commitment into it, people connect with characters and make them have lives of their own. I think stories are very organic in nature.
Applelinks: Do they see things that you don't realize you've put in?
Piro: Oh, indeed. Sometimes it just floors me that people will pick up on subtle things.
Applelinks: You also have "live feedback" on your stories (via e-mail and the MegaTokyo forums). Does that affect what you do?
Piro: I think that art is not only a one-way communication, but also two way. I produce comics to tell a story and to try to convey certain emotive things. The thing that I have what other writers or paper comic people don't have is pretty much instant feedback, and that feedback not only happens between me and the readers, but between other readers as well. There's a community aspect to it that sort of came out of nowhere that I've come to see as being very important to what makes a web comic/manga work. It's not without bumps - I'm very sensitive to criticism - but it's a strong, loyal community.
Applelinks: How so?
Piro: Ah, how so. I think that if MT were put up online without any ability of readers to talk to other readers, or form any kind of connection with others, it wouldn't do as well as it has done. Also, I think that a small thing I have is that people actually see that the people behind what they are reading are real people. I'm just another person on the net, just like them. While it's true that I try to keep some semblance of privacy - I mean, some fans have gone so far as to find my parents and get my cell phone number - but I hang out on the forums, I tell people what I think in my rants, I am around on IRC, people can talk to me. See, the problem with anime and manga is the people who make it are Japanese. There is a gap there; fans can't talk directly to them, not easily, and this makes them a little more inaccessible. Me, I'm right there. You don't think of these things when making a web comic, but I've found over time that it's important. People expect the artists and writers of these things to be aloof or something. I think it's so sad that with Bill Waterson, we didn't know what he was thinking until after the comic was over. And it's so weird to know now what stresses he was under while we were all enjoying his works. For me, people know what I'm thinking, and they even pick on me for being a whiner.
Applelinks: Zing!
Piro: Yep, but that's just part of my personality, so people just gotta deal with it.
Applelinks: Now, you have another project... Warmth.
Piro: Ah, that. Doing regular comics is a different kind of format than the way things are done on the web. Warmth I actually developed before MegaTokyo. And was what I was going to do initially - not sure how, but it was what I wanted to do.
Applelinks: For the people who don't know what Warmth is, can you describe that?
Piro: I started to work on MT as a way of getting practice so I could work on Warmth. Warmth is a more focused story that I started working on almost four years ago. It's a more serious story than MegaTokyo, and concentrates on some more complex and serious issues. Like any good story, you sort of have to read it to find out what it's about. The first installment of it was published in Amerimanga, but I am thinking that going direct to print with it was a mistake.
Applelinks: How so?
Piro: I was forgetting my web comic roots. People should be able to read it for free. So I am working to actually produce it as a web comic initially, and make it available to read online. It won't be the same kind of format as MT; it will be released in multi-page installments. But I think that MT is a good place to be able to inform people when the next installment is ready. Being in print is nice, but it's not imperative for me. In Japan, the initial release of comics are in these huge weekly/monthly compilations. And if you look at them, they are printed on cheap paper, they are disposable. The printers lose money on them. They are a type of distribution. Where money is made is when a series is collected and sold, and thru licensing and stuff like that. The web is analogous to that monthly/weekly think.
Applelinks: When did you decide to change MT from a joke-a-day strip to ongoing serial?
Piro: Well, it wasn't so much a decision to change, but was a result of the difference between what my vision for MT was and what Rodney's [Caston, co-creator of MegaTokyo] was. The concept was that we would offer a joke-a-day kind of thing, but still have an underlying story. As the story started to develop, I got to the point where I had a strip that didn't have a punch line. That got me into trouble with some readers; they wanted to know where the funny was. To me, life is usually pretty funny, but not always. I tried to balance things enough so that people could accept and read MT as it came out. These days, people are good with non-joke strips, but that only came as the strip matured.
Applelinks: Getting back to the production of the strip, what's the process?
Piro: Well, the strips are made up of separate drawings. I have "blanks" that I use, and what I do is draw each frame separately, usually about two per 8x11 sheet.
Applelinks: You don't plot them out on one large sheet?
Piro: Not really, I scribble out the basic layout to see where I'm going, and then wing it from there. All I ever use is a HP Bright White inkjet paper and a .5 mm led pencil (HB)...and erasers, lotsa erasers.
I type the script up in Word, usually (not always), and it takes about 4 to 5 hours to draw all the drawings. Once the drawings are done, I scan each one into Photoshop separately. I clean things up, adjust levels, and save each frame. Then in illustrator, I place each image on a different layer, and adjust them and crop as necessary to do the layout. I add word bubbles and dialogue, and export to an EPS file. I bring this back into Photoshop, reduce and export to a .gif file. upload and done. I've been trying to get ahead and do comics in advance for three years, but 90% of MT comics are never done more than 10 minutes before they go up.
Applelinks: You're the only working artist I know who likes the one-button mouse.
Piro: I kinda like the mouse - not because I don't need the wheel - I LIKE the wheel. But I'm very sensitive to the tracking of the mouse, and the click on the mouse is nice. Right mouse button? Whatever, That's what the command is for...er...control key.
Applelinks: Steve Jobs will be so happy! Someone finally praises the mouse!
Piro: It could use a wheel though. Add a wheel and I'd be real happy. The Griffin Power Mate is a fun toy, not perfect, but it sort makes up for it. I think the main advantage the pro mouse has over the MS mouse is that the pads it sits on are much smaller. The Mac mouse glides more. By the way, in Warmth, the three girls are fans of different systems: Eimi is a Linux user (she likes to tinker, her dad owns an electronics store), Mirai doesn't care but has a VIAO laptop, and Saeko is a Mac user - complete with a big 23" (Apple Cinema Display).
Applelinks: Have you become a Mac advocate?
Piro: An advocate? Sure. I like the Macs, I like the Mac community. I do worry that Apple has the ability to exert too much control over your system, but MS does too.
Applelinks: How do you mean?
Piro: Well, for instance, the ability to modify the OS via updates can have unforeseen issues. The recent iTunes thing is an example. A feature was taken away by an upgrade.
There are always ways around things like that, but to me, I don't like the idea that a company should be able to limit what you do with your machines. I think that's where things are going, over time, which is a shame. I think there is an illusion on my part that maybe Apple has a tighter control over the Macs from a hardware and a software end, but I'm not sure. It'll be interesting to see.
Applelinks: Does MegaTokyo have an end?
Piro: An end? Not really. See, I don't think good stories have endings. They have story arcs, and places where things come together. But life goes on, and characters don't suddenly become boring after big things happen. One stupid thing about anime is that often the story ends when the boy and the girl get together. That's just when things start getting interesting. But it's a function of the audience they tend to reach for. Of course, you can beat a story to death, and I have no intention of doing that. The story might go on, but it may not be worth following.
Applelinks: It seems like you've barely begun. It's only just recently that most of the characters have met each other.
Piro: Hehe, I'm slow, I admit. But it's the trip that matters, not finding out what happens. I could rush things more, but then it might not be so interesting. I do need to step up the number of comics. The slowness is due to how many comics I miss. Also, the structure of MT is such that there is no end to the good ideas it can breed.
Applelinks: Is there anything you'd like to be doing that you're not?
Piro: Hmm. Well, I'd love to be able to do these faster. It takes me 8 hrs or so to do each strip. I'd like to be able to focus more on doing comics, and not as much on the other things I have to work on to keep things going.
Applelinks: Use clip art!
Piro: Hehe. One problem with using art I already drew, my style progresses and changes so much that I cant go back and use stuff more than a few months old. It's like shooting myself in the foot.
Applelinks: So what goes on in the background to draw you away from the art?
Piro: Well, lots of things. Working for yourself involves not only doing the labor or producing the comic, but there are the business sides of things, merchandising, planning ahead to produce new material, prep for books and published material, Warmth itself, e-mail and public relations, and the biggest problems - story development. It takes as long to work on development as drawing the comic itself. Plus, there is that thing called "having a life," which is better than it was when I was doing MT AND working full time.
Applelinks: The hell you say!
Piro: Still, I put in a chunk of hours each and every day. Sometimes, you might try to work for 10 hrs, but only get 3 hrs of work done, that happens. A lot of material gets discarded, or never used.
Applelinks: Sounds like you need a support staff.
Piro: Well, I have Sarah. She's the best support staff you can have. Now that she's helping me more (she's in grad school, and off for the summer) she's really been helping me get on top of things. Oh, and there is all the traveling. This is the only month this year that I am not going somewhere.
Applelinks: Very cool.
Piro: People don't realize how traveling can really goof things up.
Applelinks: Is traveling to Cons part of the "business" of MT, or is it a Bennie?
Piro: It's business, it really is. I work pretty hard at cons, they aren't vacations. But I feel that being there to meet fans, draw stuff for them, etc, is very important. Fans seem to appreciate it, and it's hard to take care of everyone, but I do my best to do so when I am there.
Bill's been using Macs since the late 80s. When he's not making smartass remarks to amuse Kirk Hiner, he enjoys fighting for the user.
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